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NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

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presents the von Karman lecture a series

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of talks by scientists and engineers who

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are exploring our planet our solar

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system and all that lies beyond

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[Music]

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hello and good evening to you wherever

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whether you're in Coatesville

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Pennsylvania Winona Minnesota or here in

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California welcome to the von Karman

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lecture series my name is Brian white I

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work in the JPL's office of

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communication and education

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welcome how do we achieve what we

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thought was once impossible and how do

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you take that faintest idea the dream

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the sketch on the bar napkin how do you

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turn that into a flow full-blown mission

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where such stuff as dreams are made on

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and our little life is rounded with

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sleep now you may notice we're doing

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something a little different today we're

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sitting here on stage it's gonna be more

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of a discussion versus a full-blown talk

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at you our speaker tonight has been with

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JPL since 1984 and has worked with

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several mission and program areas he's

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been a system engineer in the

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astrophysics division has zero sense of

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humor whatsoever telecommunications and

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mistahs mission systems manager in the

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deep space network serving the Mars

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missions manager of the Cassini science

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planning and operations the Galileo

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deputy sequence team chief the Voyager

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science sequence coordinator for the

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Uranus and Neptune encounter I could go

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on and on and on today I won't today he

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is the lead study architect of JPL's

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innovation foundry 18 please welcome dr.

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let's get into it

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what's your bio you wrote it for me so I

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want to make sure we're talking about

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ideas becoming reality more specifically

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NASA JPL missions and where do they come

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from who gets to decide that's where

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we're going and you all are gonna do it

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that's right yeah

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NASA has changed over the years so

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before the mid 1990s NASA would do

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what's called assigned missions that go

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OK the Goddard Space Flight Center

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here's you know 200 million do this Ames

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Research Center I want you to do this

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and they JPL do this they would just

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assign missions to the different NASA

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centers by the mid-1990s two things

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happen that led us to where we are today

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one NASA was getting a little mad at us

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because they would come to JPL and say I

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have this great idea about a mission I

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want a rover on Mars what does it look

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like what it was it cost and we wouldn't

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know so we'd actually have to take a

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bunch of months develop it it would cost

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some money to develop that stuff and

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then we do this one at a time it was

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just too long and too expensive to do

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that so in the mid-1990s they did this

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they came up it was called the team X

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and it's called concurrent collaborative

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engineering and what they do is they

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have chairs and each chairs has a title

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so they put the eight classical

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spacecraft chairs so power thermal

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structure command data handling and so

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on they have the science chairs the

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science and the science instrument

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they'd have programmatic so you'd have

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risk cost chairs system engineering and

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they put them all in a room with

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connected spreadsheets so now when

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someone is doing a design and the sign

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thing that goes you know I need a little

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bit more coverage he'd lean over until

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the science instrument chair hey I need

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more coverage and then she would put in

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a different detector to get that

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coverage and as soon as she selected

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that chip it would hit the cost chair

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the mass chair and the power chair and

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it's almost like ordered chaos but we

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could come up with a point design in

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about three days we can come up with a

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full up mission concept to the parts and

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get a cost a mass being giving of life

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power end of life power in bow

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three days so that was team acts in this

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collaborative engineering environment so

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that solved one problem the next

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challenge we ran into was the NASA

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Administrator of the time Dan Goldin he

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wanted to darken the sky with spacecraft

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now before that we're doing like a

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mission once a decade well to darken the

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sky you're launching one or two a year

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and you just keep doing it how do you

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pick the missions for the assigned

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mission it was easy the Science

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Committee would say these are the

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missions I want and the NASA would just

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assign those based on the priority the

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science community when it came to

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competitions what they said is Oh for

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discovery I've got 550 million dollars

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who wants to do what and they would let

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the principal investigator propose

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concepts and they'd have to team up with

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an industry partner that was going to

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build the spacecraft and a NASA center

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that was going to manage the whole

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contract and those are called

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competitions and they were just competed

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now in order to handle that we actually

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had to generate proposals that responded

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to what NASA needed so we started

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generating these we call them war rooms

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where they're dedicated rooms and you

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put the whole proposals up there

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describing what's going on there and you

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would actually for the first step

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proposal the first thing on the gate you

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had three months to write this book and

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NASA tries to limit the number of books

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so they're looking for any excuse to

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reject these things you know you're

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supposed to do this in 16 pages it's 17

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you're out of there and just they look

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for compliance first so we have to make

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sure we follow the letter of the law of

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the instructions that we get in the

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announcement of opportunity to make

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these proposals and then we make a

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NASA's problem to decide which ones to

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select I'm gonna keep going unless you

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help no I please one of the problems

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that we ran into and now we're getting

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into the 2005 time frame people realize

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that proposals are now taking more and

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more laboratory resources so we better

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make our own office to do this so in

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2005 they set up what was called the

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strategic planning and project

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formulation office planning and

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formulation the chief engineer at the

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time mark Adler recognized that there

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was a

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problem if somebody comes to me with a

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row with two people come to me with a

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rover design and this one's got three

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years of work behind it and this one was

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a good idea in the shower this morning

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how do I tell the difference and what

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how much sure the idea is so what he did

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is modeling after a scale that we

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already had called technology readiness

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levels of how much you're a widget is he

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came up with this TRL's assay we see

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males concept maturity levels and I'm

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willing to talk about the first four

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just to give this a perspective see ml1

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consummatory level is the idea

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generation or the cocktail napkin stage

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this is where you do the brainstorming

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CML - this is where you do feasibility

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does it violate a law of nature 3 is

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trade space exploration and a good

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example of a trade space if I got this

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great Rover and I think it's gonna go

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one kilometer and stop it's six sites

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why not go two kilometers and stop at

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three sites why not go only 500 meters

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and stop at 12 sites what's more

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important the driving or the drilling

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well there's a trade that has to be made

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there and all too often in this business

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people fall in love with the concept and

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they just go forward they're not looking

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for how to make this the optimum content

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so what we do is we now force people to

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go through the console mature level one

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the idea generation - feasibility three

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trade space for you scientists out there

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I don't believe you start at CML one

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that says hey let's do a Mars orbiter in

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a polar orbit at 250 kilometers it

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really starts with the science question

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was there ever long standing water on

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the surface well how do I answer that

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what measurement will have to make what

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box makes that measurement where does

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that box have to be oh that's a 250

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kilometer orbit in a polar orbit so when

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you're coming up with those so a lot of

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these questions are coming from the

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Decatur survey yes and the table survey

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decayed old every 10 years every 10

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years in earth solar systemin

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astrophysics there's a group of people

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experts and they say these are the

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things we want to do for the next 10

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years

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which can kind of guide those questions

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yes so then they bring them to you and

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you are you're not team X correct team X

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I got confused first time I heard this

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because I thought team X is it team X is

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number one team X is it CML for they're

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doing the point design they realized in

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about I think was like 2011 that we

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needed some sort of preprocessor some

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group of people to work on stuff before

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team X so like I'm gonna show you a

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picture of a lunar sky light if I want

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to study one of these openings into a

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planet if I said I want to study a

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skylight on Mars or moon how would you

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do it if I went to team X they don't

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have enough material to start with so

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you came to with the a team which is

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short for architecture team we get all

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these quotes about the kernel and phase

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and Bao anyway so we get all those

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things but basically this was a way of

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putting the right people in the room

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that have the right discipline to

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actually be the subject matter expert

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for this concept and then we brainstorm

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ideas so in 2011 we set up this this is

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a place where ideas come from we call it

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left field so and the patio is

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controlled out there I tried to have a

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conference called in here but they don't

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want that but this is left field okay

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and one of the things we do at council

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material level one the the cocktail

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napkin stage is brainstorming and when

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we brainstorm we tell everybody that

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when I have a problem and I want you to

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write ideas on a post-it which looks

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like this we just we just write them

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down a board and then we bin them and

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then we vote on these things we say we

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want everybody to come with at least one

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bad idea not because we want to

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implement bad ideas but usually you have

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a tendency to blinders and say this is

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the way we do things and we can't live

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that way we need to be able to open up

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the boundaries because just because we

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haven't done it before doesn't mean you

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can't do it bad idea has there been a

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moment when the bad idea has actually

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been an idea like actually that's not a

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bad idea let's stick with that idea well

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to me there's no such thing as a bad

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idea

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yeah yeah well it's something that

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pushes the envelope okay all right so

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one of the things that what I use to

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help me when it comes to idea generation

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I like the correct use of the word

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00:10:59,070 --> 00:10:57,790
impossible now don't ask me about where

274
00:11:00,570 --> 00:10:59,080
I learned this from it was volitional

275
00:11:04,410 --> 00:11:00,580
physics but that's another whole side

276
00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:04,420
line but the depth the true definition I

277
00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:06,940
believe for the word impossible is that

278
00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:09,670
which violates a natural law so as an

279
00:11:13,710 --> 00:11:11,320
example can a spacecraft go faster than

280
00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:13,720
the speed of light no with our color

281
00:11:18,510 --> 00:11:16,120
understanding that's impossible can a

282
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:18,520
human being live to be 200 or 300 years

283
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:22,240
old well if I can't point to what it

284
00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:24,970
violates it just means we don't know how

285
00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:28,180
to do it so that's one filter I use for

286
00:11:34,170 --> 00:11:31,000
a good idea and you know people use the

287
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:34,180
word impossibly poorly all the time

288
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:36,640
my favorite example and I clicked some

289
00:11:40,350 --> 00:11:38,770
weird space stuff I've got these two

290
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:40,360
papers that are just bound together

291
00:11:44,250 --> 00:11:42,610
there nothing fancy it was by an

292
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:44,260
astronomer named Simon Newcomb in the

293
00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:45,370
early 1900s

294
00:11:52,220 --> 00:11:49,390
his first paper in 1902 is titled is the

295
00:11:54,510 --> 00:11:52,230
airship coming and he wrote why it was

296
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,520
impossible to have a heavier than air

297
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:56,560
craft this was a year before the Wright

298
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,680
brothers the second paper that is

299
00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:01,600
mounted to this thing and to be known

300
00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:03,300
through history for this just kills me

301
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,220
the second paper is entitled the

302
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:08,320
prospects of aerial navigation it was

303
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:12,130
written in 1907 why he was wrong

304
00:12:15,660 --> 00:12:13,810
why it is possible to have heavier than

305
00:12:18,330 --> 00:12:15,670
aircraft but why it will never be

306
00:12:21,570 --> 00:12:18,340
commercially viable you know I'm just

307
00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:21,580
gonna man guys that's not how you want

308
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:23,590
to get known so whenever I hear someone

309
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:27,130
say that's impossible or that's not the

310
00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:29,680
way you do it warning signals go off in

311
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:33,400
my mind because I don't care how we did

312
00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:35,650
it we want to do something new and one

313
00:12:39,390 --> 00:12:37,240
of the really wonderful things about the

314
00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:39,400
Jet Propulsion Laboratory is we only

315
00:12:42,930 --> 00:12:40,960
want to do missions that no one else has

316
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:42,940
ever done before you want to do it over

317
00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:45,370
to Mars go to Lockheed Martin go to ball

318
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:47,500
brothers because we want to do the

319
00:12:51,150 --> 00:12:49,330
Mobility Systems we want to do the

320
00:12:53,189 --> 00:12:51,160
space-based interferometers we want to

321
00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:53,199
do the subsurface exploration

322
00:12:58,079 --> 00:12:56,889
that's where we won't play yeah these

323
00:13:01,679 --> 00:12:58,089
this is amazing

324
00:13:02,939 --> 00:13:01,689
I love that definition of impossible who

325
00:13:04,829 --> 00:13:02,949
works well we're talking about something

326
00:13:06,119 --> 00:13:04,839
like remember here we got a full scale

327
00:13:08,609 --> 00:13:06,129
model of Voyager we're talking about

328
00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:08,619
these missions that go out there and

329
00:13:14,789 --> 00:13:12,809
beyond what we thought was possible yeah

330
00:13:15,569 --> 00:13:14,799
what would be something that you would

331
00:13:16,829 --> 00:13:15,579
okay

332
00:13:18,299 --> 00:13:16,839
talk me through something right now

333
00:13:20,579 --> 00:13:18,309
let's say let's have a mission out there

334
00:13:22,139 --> 00:13:20,589
I want something like Voyager and I end

335
00:13:25,049 --> 00:13:22,149
up going through you guys through the

336
00:13:27,449 --> 00:13:25,059
very beginning how do I talk about going

337
00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:27,459
out there well the first challenge is

338
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:28,660
you always want to start with science

339
00:13:32,249 --> 00:13:30,730
requirements we're not doing these to do

340
00:13:34,259 --> 00:13:32,259
engineering we're doing this to do

341
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:34,269
science we use engineering to enable us

342
00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:37,689
quiring the science okay and so it

343
00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:38,889
really starts with some sort of

344
00:13:42,929 --> 00:13:40,540
scientific question that we want to do

345
00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:42,939
okay so I'm gonna lead into this

346
00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:46,660
interesting concept here if you look at

347
00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:50,169
this this is an interstellar mission

348
00:13:57,659 --> 00:13:54,790
broken up into phases so you've got wow

349
00:13:59,999 --> 00:13:57,669
dad that goes there this is the this is

350
00:14:02,970 --> 00:14:00,009
the acceleration it's all propulsion the

351
00:14:05,249 --> 00:14:02,980
long survival the deceleration to the

352
00:14:07,289 --> 00:14:05,259
system getting ready for the encounter

353
00:14:09,989 --> 00:14:07,299
in that exoplanet system on another

354
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:09,999
world the science to acquire that data

355
00:14:15,479 --> 00:14:12,970
and then the playback well everybody in

356
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:15,489
there the mother's brother is all

357
00:14:19,650 --> 00:14:16,720
working on trying to figure out how to

358
00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:19,660
go faster than Voyager our rule of thumb

359
00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:20,769
was would like to be able to go ten

360
00:14:24,179 --> 00:14:23,049
times faster than Voyager for you guys

361
00:14:25,609 --> 00:14:24,189
that are counting that's a little bit

362
00:14:27,389 --> 00:14:25,619
more than a year from here in Neptune

363
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,399
we're talking about that kind of space

364
00:14:32,699 --> 00:14:29,279
not the 12 years that Voyager did it

365
00:14:34,739 --> 00:14:32,709
even at that speed I mean Voyager right

366
00:14:36,569 --> 00:14:34,749
now at a million miles per day which i

367
00:14:39,419 --> 00:14:36,579
think is pretty not too shabby

368
00:14:40,650 --> 00:14:39,429
that would take 72,000 years to get to

369
00:14:42,119 --> 00:14:40,660
the nearest star and we're not even

370
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:42,129
going in that direction if stars move

371
00:14:47,050 --> 00:14:44,690
but other than that

372
00:14:49,449 --> 00:14:47,060
and if you go 10 times faster that's

373
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:49,459
only 7,000 years that's still not in my

374
00:14:54,970 --> 00:14:51,110
lifetime and I'm kind of I'm at the back

375
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:54,980
nine okay but the question that we

376
00:15:00,879 --> 00:14:56,930
proposed here was and let's let's zoom

377
00:15:04,420 --> 00:15:00,889
in on this thing you can see this is the

378
00:15:06,009 --> 00:15:04,430
tail end is being displayed here let's

379
00:15:08,379 --> 00:15:06,019
say we could take 40 years to go to

380
00:15:09,999 --> 00:15:08,389
Proxima Centuri which is the closest R

381
00:15:11,439 --> 00:15:10,009
we know it's got a we call them

382
00:15:14,170 --> 00:15:11,449
exoplanets planets around other stars

383
00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:14,180
systems let's make it somebody else's

384
00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:15,350
problem figuring out how to speed up

385
00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:18,529
survive and slow down when you get there

386
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:21,470
after 40 years the science that this

387
00:15:25,449 --> 00:15:24,170
spacecraft was designed for has probably

388
00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:25,459
already been done on the ground because

389
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:26,689
astronomers on the ground are not

390
00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:28,490
waiting for you guys to get there in 40

391
00:15:33,490 --> 00:15:30,500
years they're so working the problem in

392
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:33,500
addition the technology is old voyages

393
00:15:39,429 --> 00:15:35,990
41 years is going to be 42 years I think

394
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:39,439
it's big memory is for four kilobytes of

395
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:44,000
memory this thing would run doors around

396
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:45,290
that I would have loved to have this

397
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,839
thing running that spacecraft so the

398
00:15:51,790 --> 00:15:49,519
technology old so now how could you get

399
00:15:53,379 --> 00:15:51,800
around them so one idea that we were

400
00:15:57,009 --> 00:15:53,389
toying with that was really kind of

401
00:15:58,449 --> 00:15:57,019
science fiction was 4d printing you've

402
00:16:00,939 --> 00:15:58,459
heard of 3d printers doing additive

403
00:16:02,590 --> 00:16:00,949
manufacturing you know your printer at

404
00:16:04,569 --> 00:16:02,600
home you have a magenta cartridge and a

405
00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:04,579
cyan cartridge and a black cartridge

406
00:16:08,889 --> 00:16:06,920
head what happens if you have a 3d

407
00:16:11,769 --> 00:16:08,899
printer and now you put it in a copper

408
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:11,779
head on a loom head a Teflon head or all

409
00:16:14,769 --> 00:16:13,130
the different materials and now you

410
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:14,779
build up all the circuitry and all the

411
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:16,730
functionality of the thing so that when

412
00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:18,550
it's done you have something that works

413
00:16:21,939 --> 00:16:20,689
I'm looking these guys going you're

414
00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:21,949
talking about building a replicator

415
00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:26,329
right is that where I am um and the idea

416
00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:28,040
that we're talking about is wouldn't it

417
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:30,589
be fun that after you decelerate down

418
00:16:36,129 --> 00:16:33,350
you have a 4d print on your spacecraft

419
00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:36,139
and you eat your propellant tanks to

420
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:37,550
make your new instruments and optical

421
00:16:41,379 --> 00:16:39,170
system and pointing system and then

422
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:41,389
after the encounter you eat your

423
00:16:48,249 --> 00:16:44,720
instruments to make your telecom system

424
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:48,259
there'd be like a 95% you know loss with

425
00:16:55,059 --> 00:16:50,930
each stage but you could evolve the

426
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:55,069
spacecraft why not right so you know

427
00:16:57,970 --> 00:16:56,000
we're not saying we're gonna do this

428
00:16:59,860 --> 00:16:57,980
tomorrow but it points in the direction

429
00:17:11,409 --> 00:16:59,870
of the things that we might need to try

430
00:17:12,699 --> 00:17:11,419
to enable some future capability so you

431
00:17:14,140 --> 00:17:12,709
start with the science you start with

432
00:17:15,779 --> 00:17:14,150
the science question that's right how do

433
00:17:18,909 --> 00:17:15,789
you come up with a good science question

434
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:18,919
the science question really first comes

435
00:17:22,449 --> 00:17:21,049
from the takeda surveys again we're

436
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,459
always pointing back to science whether

437
00:17:26,289 --> 00:17:24,319
it's an ass advisor group or dukale

438
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:26,299
survey we want to find the compelling

439
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:27,650
science question that we want to go

440
00:17:31,570 --> 00:17:29,840
after and one of the things that we try

441
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:31,580
to do is in our minds is a difference

442
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:34,250
between a goal and objective a goal is

443
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:38,240
something grandiose and qualitative an

444
00:17:44,140 --> 00:17:40,010
objective is something really specific

445
00:17:47,049 --> 00:17:44,150
and quantitative so as an example a goal

446
00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:47,059
in NASA's soulsand kale is I want to

447
00:17:52,450 --> 00:17:49,220
find if there's life or was life in the

448
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:52,460
solar system that's huge

449
00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:53,600
I mean I mean how do you handle

450
00:17:57,549 --> 00:17:56,360
something like that what you could do is

451
00:17:59,710 --> 00:17:57,559
try to make it down more quantifiable

452
00:18:02,110 --> 00:17:59,720
and more bite-sized and say okay I'm

453
00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:02,120
gonna develop a lander that's gonna land

454
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:03,980
at this latitude and longitude and with

455
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:05,510
in top five centimeters look for

456
00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:08,330
organics it's addressing that goal but

457
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:09,740
it's much more specific and something to

458
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:14,110
get my hands around so we make them do

459
00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:17,510
the science we make sure they have a

460
00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:19,220
hypothesis and a prediction you know if

461
00:18:23,529 --> 00:18:21,260
I'm if I'm Newton I go I drop an apple

462
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:23,539
it falls well my hypothesis is a

463
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:25,250
gravitational force it's 1 over R

464
00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:27,770
squared my prediction is if I drop the

465
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:29,240
cart over there which I have never done

466
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:31,760
ever before that it'll fall at 1 over R

467
00:18:35,230 --> 00:18:33,049
squared so then I go over there and I

468
00:18:37,810 --> 00:18:35,240
drop it and if it works I go ooh

469
00:18:40,299 --> 00:18:37,820
coincidence three times there's a trend

470
00:18:41,649 --> 00:18:40,309
for I mean it just keeps going and each

471
00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:41,659
time you're trying to validate these

472
00:18:46,899 --> 00:18:44,720
things okay so we make them come up with

473
00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:46,909
a hypothesis in the prediction and one

474
00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:49,340
of my co-workers dr. al Nash that I love

475
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:50,840
he says when you're coming up with a

476
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:53,049
hypothesis it has to be a barroom brawl

477
00:18:57,740 --> 00:18:56,000
and I look at my gold barroom brawl he

478
00:19:00,740 --> 00:18:57,750
goes yeah if I say more snow

479
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:00,750
leads to more snow runoff that's kind of

480
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:03,570
a statement I mean it doesn't if I said

481
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:06,510
that lack of snow on the mountains is

482
00:19:11,930 --> 00:19:09,690
gonna cause rebounding in Greenland ooh

483
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:11,940
not everybody's gonna buy that so now we

484
00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:14,250
have we can have a fight over that so to

485
00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:16,470
make a compelling hypothesis it's it's

486
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:17,880
got to have the barroom brawls out of a

487
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:20,130
bowl right yeah then the next thing we

488
00:19:24,290 --> 00:19:22,410
do is we find that scientists are

489
00:19:27,050 --> 00:19:24,300
phenomenal at writing peer-reviewed

490
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:27,060
journal articles they're not so hot at

491
00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:28,500
communicating to the general public and

492
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:31,860
making people care about it so what we

493
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:35,070
try to do is we actually use techniques

494
00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:36,000
because we've been going to all

495
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:37,470
different entries to find ways to do it

496
00:19:42,650 --> 00:19:40,050
we went to Disney for this one this is

497
00:19:44,890 --> 00:19:42,660
Pixar storytelling and what they do is

498
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:44,900
they make everybody writing a story

499
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:47,760
complete these segments segments of a

500
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,250
fragments of a sentence once upon time

501
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:53,280
there was every day one day because of

502
00:19:59,720 --> 00:19:56,850
that because of that until finally so

503
00:20:01,640 --> 00:19:59,730
let me show you how this thing works

504
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:01,650
this is Finding Nemo you can find this

505
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:05,310
on the internet it's great just just I

506
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:07,100
mean it's all out there

507
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:09,930
this is Nemo once upon a time there was

508
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,250
a widow fish named Marlin who was

509
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:12,960
extremely protective his only son Nemo

510
00:20:17,150 --> 00:20:15,450
every day Marlin Warren Nemo of the

511
00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:17,160
oceans dangers and implored him not to

512
00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:19,380
swim far away one day in an act of

513
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:20,790
defiance Nemo ignored his father's

514
00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:22,670
warnings and swam into the open water

515
00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:24,630
because of that he is captured by a

516
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:26,160
diver and ends up in a fish tank of a

517
00:20:29,330 --> 00:20:27,900
dentist and Disney because of that

518
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:29,340
Marlin sets off on a journey to recover

519
00:20:32,420 --> 00:20:30,630
Nemo and loosing the help but the other

520
00:20:33,950 --> 00:20:32,430
sea creatures along the way until

521
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:33,960
finally Marlin Nemo find each other

522
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:35,460
reunite and learned that love depends on

523
00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:40,140
trust yeah really spoiler alert that is

524
00:20:45,290 --> 00:20:42,420
the movie you could say there go yes

525
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:45,300
that is it now you go what does it have

526
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:46,020
to do with NASA

527
00:20:51,380 --> 00:20:48,930
well this same technique works for us to

528
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:51,390
get the science community to answer to

529
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:53,490
tell us their story so what we'll do is

530
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,110
we'll bring a science team into the room

531
00:20:58,580 --> 00:20:56,880
we'll give them these six fragments of a

532
00:21:00,110 --> 00:20:58,590
sentence and we have each guy write

533
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:00,120
their own story and surprise surprise

534
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,970
they're all writing their own story well

535
00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:05,520
then we make them work on one story and

536
00:21:09,230 --> 00:21:07,740
the story could look like this this is

537
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:09,240
about Europa it's a moon of Jupiter that

538
00:21:12,530 --> 00:21:11,370
has an ice field it was

539
00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:12,540
that's advisor group and look what they

540
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:14,580
did once upon a time scientist saw

541
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:16,020
evidence of a liquid water ocean on

542
00:21:20,660 --> 00:21:18,270
Europa everyday scientists wondered to

543
00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:20,670
this ocean could support life one day

544
00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:22,140
studies indicated that to support life

545
00:21:24,980 --> 00:21:23,550
there must be some evidence of an

546
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:24,990
exchange of material between the ocean

547
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:27,570
and surface because of that NASA decides

548
00:21:31,460 --> 00:21:29,130
to send a lander to Europa to look for

549
00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:31,470
bio signatures because of that a seismic

550
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:32,910
network was established on Europa to

551
00:21:36,170 --> 00:21:34,740
listen to the moon's quakes until

552
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:36,180
finally scientists were able determine

553
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:37,320
the thickness of moon's cross the

554
00:21:43,340 --> 00:21:39,330
activity of its ocean and in turn its

555
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:43,350
habitability that's a compelling science

556
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:47,280
story everybody understands that so we

557
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,720
make them come up with their science

558
00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:50,370
question my hypothesis prediction and we

559
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:51,480
make them do this too

560
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:54,510
and what happens is this can actually

561
00:21:58,669 --> 00:21:56,730
lead to different things now I'm not

562
00:22:00,680 --> 00:21:58,679
saying that the a team is the

563
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:00,690
brainstorms of every idea that comes to

564
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:02,970
the left it does not we have a lot of

565
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:04,490
brilliant and creative minds out there

566
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:06,420
people may come with us just to

567
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:07,679
understand the feasibility of their

568
00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:09,210
concept they may come to us just to

569
00:22:12,919 --> 00:22:10,500
understand the trade to make sure they

570
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:12,929
have the optimum design so as an example

571
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:14,370
of one thing that came through us was

572
00:22:21,169 --> 00:22:19,050
this this is something that were

573
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:21,179
actually doing in 2020 which is so cool

574
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:23,580
if you look at 97 we had a little

575
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:26,760
Sojourner Rover that rover the

576
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:28,110
Pathfinder team didn't want it was

577
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:29,580
sitting on their solar arrays blocking

578
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:32,460
the light but having mobility was so

579
00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:36,150
cool that we actually were able to do it

580
00:22:40,790 --> 00:22:37,980
and with that led to Spirit Opportunity

581
00:22:42,830 --> 00:22:40,800
curiosity in Mars 2020 Rover x' well

582
00:22:45,410 --> 00:22:42,840
what you're seeing this animation of is

583
00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:45,420
we've got the go-ahead that on 2020

584
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:47,670
we're putting a two kilogram helicopter

585
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:48,690
on that vehicle

586
00:22:54,919 --> 00:22:52,440
so once the rover lands we're gonna pull

587
00:22:57,140 --> 00:22:54,929
out this helicopter we're gonna drive

588
00:22:59,120 --> 00:22:57,150
away and look at it and we're gonna

589
00:23:01,100 --> 00:22:59,130
watch to see if this thing lifts and to

590
00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:01,110
prove ourselves we get to work we went

591
00:23:05,210 --> 00:23:04,140
to our high base we we tied this thing

592
00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:05,220
to the floor we sucked out the

593
00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:08,100
atmosphere 7,000 carbon dioxide and the

594
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:10,470
thing was able to generate lift it's the

595
00:23:14,830 --> 00:23:11,610
wrong gravity field it's the wrong

596
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:14,840
temperature but it flies

597
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:17,760
we've already had eight team studies

598
00:23:23,870 --> 00:23:21,720
that say hey if you had a 35 to 45

599
00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:23,880
kilogram helicopter what could you do

600
00:23:27,140 --> 00:23:26,070
could you fly in the big Canyon Valles

601
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:27,150
Marineris and get a look at the

602
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:29,370
sidewalls maybe see a femur sticking out

603
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:32,700
of a strata so cool I mean that would be

604
00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:42,000
great but this stuff does work this is

605
00:23:45,860 --> 00:23:44,160
yeah we can talk about ideas and these

606
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:45,870
things that you want to go out there and

607
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:48,450
do these things but what is some of the

608
00:23:51,310 --> 00:23:49,770
stuff that's gone through you already

609
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,320
what are some of these ideas that

610
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:53,520
missions people might have even heard of

611
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:56,400
or not yet and what is that that's what

612
00:23:58,910 --> 00:23:57,570
I think people are here to see as well

613
00:24:00,260 --> 00:23:58,920
well one idea that to come through us

614
00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:00,270
from a feasibility point of view so it

615
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:04,740
wasn't our idea was related to this this

616
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:07,110
is an image of the surface of Mars and

617
00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:09,090
you'll notice there's two big black dots

618
00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:11,880
and you look at yourself and you go what

619
00:24:16,190 --> 00:24:14,700
the heck is that so you bring Mars

620
00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:16,200
reconnaissance over there with the big

621
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:18,270
camera the highrise instrument and we go

622
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:22,010
photograph those and it looks like that

623
00:24:26,510 --> 00:24:25,110
they're cave openings we call these

624
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:26,520
things skylights which I alluded to

625
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:31,290
before so picture a lava tube that you

626
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:32,610
know what's flowing billions of years

627
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:34,380
ago and yet all these episodic flows

628
00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:37,410
through coding the this tube and then

629
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:39,390
after the court turned off and the lava

630
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:41,100
flows turned off you got this tunnel

631
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:44,250
there and then over the eons a piece of

632
00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:47,340
the top caves in that's what we think

633
00:24:49,659 --> 00:24:48,870
these things are but these are these are

634
00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:49,669
these are

635
00:24:54,890 --> 00:24:53,100
skylights to these cave openings and we

636
00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:54,900
think the tube itself may not be that

637
00:24:59,419 --> 00:24:56,520
interesting because it should be uniform

638
00:25:02,720 --> 00:24:59,429
with the last flow what we want to see

639
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:02,730
is the strata as you go through this so

640
00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:04,770
we're working on some technologies like

641
00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:11,669
you know right now that's pretty teeny

642
00:25:16,619 --> 00:25:14,950
but that's also in a gravity feel but

643
00:25:18,539 --> 00:25:16,629
one of the proposals we're doing for the

644
00:25:22,499 --> 00:25:18,549
moon because the moon has skylights too

645
00:25:24,479 --> 00:25:22,509
is this this is called moon divert we're

646
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:24,489
gonna land next to the opening and take

647
00:25:30,330 --> 00:25:27,190
that axial which is on a cable and roll

648
00:25:35,009 --> 00:25:30,340
it down the sidewalls now to first order

649
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:35,019
we might have you know it was like a

650
00:25:39,450 --> 00:25:37,690
kilometer no it's probably a hundred

651
00:25:41,789 --> 00:25:39,460
meters to the opening 100 meters down a

652
00:25:43,709 --> 00:25:41,799
hundred meters in through the tube but

653
00:25:46,409 --> 00:25:43,719
the thing that's cool is as you're going

654
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,419
down the the side walls you have

655
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:47,919
instruments on the axle of that

656
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:50,559
instrument so that now you can see the

657
00:25:54,629 --> 00:25:52,809
stratification and the trapped solar

658
00:25:59,039 --> 00:25:54,639
wind particles of how the Sun was

659
00:26:00,749 --> 00:25:59,049
behaving billions of years ago so this

660
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:00,759
is one that we did feasibility on and

661
00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:04,570
it's going to going to to NASA this this

662
00:26:11,369 --> 00:26:08,769
fall well brilliant now another one that

663
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:11,379
just kills us that we just love this is

664
00:26:15,869 --> 00:26:13,330
Jupiter it's it's nice and fun it's got

665
00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:15,879
a just a horrific radiation environment

666
00:26:20,430 --> 00:26:18,309
it's got scads moon's you got the four

667
00:26:23,159 --> 00:26:20,440
big Galilean ones there's one called

668
00:26:25,109 --> 00:26:23,169
Europa it looks like a cue ball that you

669
00:26:27,239 --> 00:26:25,119
did a felt to pen to draw lines on it so

670
00:26:28,649 --> 00:26:27,249
it's very smooth and it's ice it's got

671
00:26:31,049 --> 00:26:28,659
the density pretty close to that of an

672
00:26:34,049 --> 00:26:31,059
ice cube so we know it's mostly water

673
00:26:37,979 --> 00:26:34,059
but the Galileo spacecraft went by and

674
00:26:39,629 --> 00:26:37,989
it's our weak magnetic signature and you

675
00:26:42,239 --> 00:26:39,639
go how do you get a ice cube to have a

676
00:26:44,639 --> 00:26:42,249
little bit of a magnetic signature the

677
00:26:48,089 --> 00:26:44,649
best theory is that we have liquid water

678
00:26:51,509 --> 00:26:48,099
salt oceans circulating under that ice

679
00:26:54,389 --> 00:26:51,519
field so we think it looks like this now

680
00:26:57,479 --> 00:26:54,399
we don't know if that ice field is a

681
00:26:58,639 --> 00:26:57,489
meter thick or a hundred kilometers

682
00:27:01,079 --> 00:26:58,649
thick we have no idea how thick it is

683
00:27:04,649 --> 00:27:01,089
but we think the amount of liquid water

684
00:27:07,859 --> 00:27:04,659
in there is twice the amount of all the

685
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:07,869
water on the oceans on earth so there's

686
00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:10,710
a lot of it so then

687
00:27:17,930 --> 00:27:13,950
yeah you could have a party and never

688
00:27:20,270 --> 00:27:17,940
run out of ice right the question was

689
00:27:22,010 --> 00:27:20,280
say you could get to jute well we can't

690
00:27:23,980 --> 00:27:22,020
get to Jupiter say you can survive the

691
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:23,990
environment and he'd get through the ice

692
00:27:29,420 --> 00:27:26,850
where would be the best place to explore

693
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:29,430
is it along the ocean bottom looking at

694
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:31,860
hydrothermal vents is it being a fishy

695
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:35,460
and swimming through the water or would

696
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:38,570
it be where the ice and water meet and

697
00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:40,710
to our science community it's this

698
00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:42,030
interface between the ice and water

699
00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:44,280
because heat from the thermal vents

700
00:27:48,590 --> 00:27:46,980
circulates stuff up and Jupiter's

701
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:48,600
radiation is radiating the ice on the

702
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:50,340
top which is falling down so that

703
00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:52,590
interface is really interesting so now

704
00:27:58,610 --> 00:27:55,500
the question is how do you explore that

705
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,620
as a National Research Laboratory we get

706
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:00,000
to work on technologies that really

707
00:28:04,910 --> 00:28:03,270
don't have a mission funded but is

708
00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:04,920
developing capability for some future

709
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:06,780
mission so one of the things we worked

710
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:10,050
on for this particular problem this is

711
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:12,450
up in Alaska it's a frozen lake there's

712
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:14,190
a square yellow box in the right corner

713
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:15,690
because National Geographic dumped a

714
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:18,270
camera in the bottom of this lake we

715
00:28:22,790 --> 00:28:20,760
take out this little Rover it's named

716
00:28:26,030 --> 00:28:22,800
brewery and and if you have good eyes

717
00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:26,040
just in the bottom we turn it on and we

718
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:28,580
let it go and the cool thing about it is

719
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:33,330
this bad boy is buoyant so it floats up

720
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:35,220
to the ice and now it drives on the

721
00:28:41,270 --> 00:28:40,170
bottom of the ice and now let's get this

722
00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:41,280
straight you know we're able to command

723
00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:43,470
this from JPL but you still got to

724
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:44,940
figure out how to get it 1/2 billion

725
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:46,740
miles out how to get it through

726
00:28:51,620 --> 00:28:49,080
kilometers of ice how to get it to go

727
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:51,630
through how to get power commands to it

728
00:28:56,150 --> 00:28:54,690
how to get data from it how to power it

729
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:56,160
but right now we're working on the

730
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,170
mobility system

731
00:29:03,770 --> 00:29:00,480
so so this is coming to a theater near

732
00:29:06,460 --> 00:29:03,780
you probably in your lifetime but I mean

733
00:29:09,620 --> 00:29:06,470
it's something really pretty wild and

734
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:09,630
not every concept goes to the architects

735
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,820
team because they may not need to we're

736
00:29:16,340 --> 00:29:12,960
kind of like a service organization

737
00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:16,350
where we provide a capability where we

738
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:18,150
have our folks on the architecture team

739
00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:20,910
and we just tell people that if you have

740
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:22,500
a problem and either coming up with an

741
00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:24,210
idea for something or want to check out

742
00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:28,140
feasibility or want to look at the

743
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:29,430
trades to make sure you haven't design

744
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:32,250
you can come to us we initially thought

745
00:29:38,450 --> 00:29:33,990
when we developed this capability in

746
00:29:40,970 --> 00:29:38,460
2012 you know we do about 12 a year two

747
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:40,980
years ago we did 61 studies last year we

748
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:44,610
did 66 the my boss is doing this talk

749
00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:45,120
tomorrow

750
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,310
Steve Mateus AK he claims that we're now

751
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:49,200
going to be doing 60 studies every year

752
00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:52,110
which is just a lot but we do not have a

753
00:30:00,880 --> 00:29:55,560
shortage of ideas one of the other last

754
00:30:08,270 --> 00:30:04,790
okay exoplanets are planets around other

755
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,280
stars systems okay the problem is

756
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:10,320
they're really dim compared to the

757
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,330
sunlight coming to start this starlight

758
00:30:16,550 --> 00:30:14,640
coming off of That star we think it's

759
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:16,560
about and you know your your mileage

760
00:30:22,370 --> 00:30:18,450
will vary but it's like 10 billion to

761
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:22,380
one they say trying to see the light

762
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:25,140
reflected off an exoplanet is like

763
00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:28,740
trying to image a firefly an inch away

764
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,950
from a lighthouse at night and because

765
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:33,840
of the dial dust the dust in our sole

766
00:30:37,670 --> 00:30:35,490
'some and the dust that's probably in

767
00:30:39,950 --> 00:30:37,680
that solar system you have to do this on

768
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:39,960
a foggy night that's the problem we're

769
00:30:44,690 --> 00:30:43,230
trying to solve so one way of doing this

770
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:44,700
is you take your finger and you put it

771
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:46,860
in front of the light bulb so you can

772
00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:49,110
see stuff next to it these are called

773
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:51,240
coronagraphs we have this a cultic disc

774
00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:53,580
inside the telescope but because the

775
00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:55,230
disc is small is this a telescope you

776
00:31:00,020 --> 00:30:56,760
still get diffraction of light around

777
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:00,030
that and if it's 10 billion to 1 I mean

778
00:31:02,810 --> 00:31:01,110
think about what you're doing you say

779
00:31:05,270 --> 00:31:02,820
okay I'm gonna take these 10 billion

780
00:31:06,570 --> 00:31:05,280
photons I'm gonna take nine billion nine

781
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:06,580
hundred nine million nine

782
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:08,950
99 put them over there and put the one I

783
00:31:13,409 --> 00:31:11,080
need there and then I'm taking the next

784
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:13,419
10 billion and put the one there and

785
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:15,279
it's got to be the right one right take

786
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:16,480
the next 10 billion I put that there

787
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:17,769
until you build up enough signal to see

788
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:20,049
this so you can't tolerate a little bit

789
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:22,390
of scattered light around this occulting

790
00:31:27,450 --> 00:31:26,200
disk so we find that exoplanets come in

791
00:31:30,509 --> 00:31:27,460
many different flavors you can think of

792
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:30,519
it as a zoo of these things there are

793
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:32,890
over 4,000 of these things detected and

794
00:31:36,779 --> 00:31:35,049
I can't keep up with it so I'm just you

795
00:31:38,430 --> 00:31:36,789
have a bunch of numbers because first

796
00:31:40,169 --> 00:31:38,440
you gotta have a detection of them and

797
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:40,179
then you know if I detected I say Brian

798
00:31:45,419 --> 00:31:43,360
there's an exoplanet you gotta go hey

799
00:31:47,310 --> 00:31:45,429
Randy you're right I go uh it's

800
00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:47,320
confirmed somebody independent has to

801
00:31:50,340 --> 00:31:48,580
confirm it so there's what you detected

802
00:31:51,629 --> 00:31:50,350
and what's confirmed and then what's in

803
00:31:54,169 --> 00:31:51,639
the habitable zone just goes on and on

804
00:31:57,419 --> 00:31:54,179
but we initially started finding these

805
00:31:59,580 --> 00:31:57,429
we call hot Jupiters picture Jupiter's

806
00:32:00,740 --> 00:31:59,590
that are in their system well inside the

807
00:32:04,830 --> 00:32:00,750
orbit of where mercury would have been

808
00:32:06,539 --> 00:32:04,840
the year is a day long or so so we call

809
00:32:08,610 --> 00:32:06,549
them hot Jupiter so they're just hauling

810
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:08,620
buns and they're really hot and really

811
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:12,399
close we find these guys these are

812
00:32:17,009 --> 00:32:15,279
called orphan worlds picture a Jupiter

813
00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:17,019
sized object gets thrown to that solar

814
00:32:21,899 --> 00:32:19,870
system and it just coasts forever in the

815
00:32:23,789 --> 00:32:21,909
darkness of space between stars it's

816
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:23,799
probably still warm from its the helium

817
00:32:28,289 --> 00:32:25,090
sticky in this atmosphere and it's just

818
00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:28,299
floating through interstellar space

819
00:32:31,379 --> 00:32:30,220
we found ones based on the density so

820
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:31,389
this is kind of made up

821
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:34,090
we call them ocean worlds not the Kevin

822
00:32:37,889 --> 00:32:36,250
Costner canto ssin world's ocean ocean

823
00:32:39,060 --> 00:32:37,899
kind of worlds where we really think

824
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:39,070
it's just the whole surface is covered

825
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,240
with water based on our density

826
00:32:46,049 --> 00:32:43,120
arguments so the question is how do you

827
00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:46,059
put a bigger thumb over the star to

828
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:47,470
limit the light that comes around it so

829
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:49,690
you can see things near it so one of the

830
00:32:55,769 --> 00:32:51,360
things we're working on it's up the hill

831
00:32:57,180 --> 00:32:55,779
it's called a star shade so here you

832
00:32:59,730 --> 00:32:57,190
have a telescope the yellow thing is the

833
00:33:01,860 --> 00:32:59,740
star shade you open up a band and it

834
00:33:03,389 --> 00:33:01,870
does its first deploy and then it's

835
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:03,399
second deploy this thing could be as

836
00:33:09,149 --> 00:33:06,850
much as 75 feet across the pedals are

837
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:09,159
like you know 812 feet long 60 feet long

838
00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:11,529
two micron Collins colleges you can cut

839
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:13,480
yourself on this thing sharply you then

840
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:15,250
send it 23,000 miles and you let it

841
00:33:18,580 --> 00:33:17,529
slide in front of the star system so you

842
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:18,590
can directly in

843
00:33:24,399 --> 00:33:22,090
stars planets around other stars systems

844
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,409
we actually had to hire an origami

845
00:33:29,409 --> 00:33:26,320
expert to help us work that thing out

846
00:33:31,409 --> 00:33:29,419
how do you pack that I mean it was just

847
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,419
nuts

848
00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:33,679
ideas and these things can come from

849
00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:35,270
anywhere you've talked about yeah how

850
00:33:40,690 --> 00:33:38,360
these teams not always are just you oh

851
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:40,700
you can bring in people from all over we

852
00:33:45,070 --> 00:33:43,250
don't have the expert in everything yeah

853
00:33:46,899 --> 00:33:45,080
and it's something that I also

854
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:46,909
appreciate you talked about you've told

855
00:33:51,789 --> 00:33:48,830
me before you're okay saying the words I

856
00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:51,799
don't know oh yeah absolutely

857
00:33:56,019 --> 00:33:54,320
we don't know most of this stuff you

858
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:56,029
know we have little pink meat here and

859
00:34:00,490 --> 00:33:57,710
we try to understand our order of the

860
00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:00,500
universe but think about what we're

861
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:03,230
doing you're guys we are trying to get

862
00:34:07,109 --> 00:34:06,409
out of our solar system Neptune is four

863
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:07,119
light hours

864
00:34:11,470 --> 00:34:09,770
what's Voyager 16 hours 20 hours

865
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:11,480
somewhere in that ballpark light hours

866
00:34:17,379 --> 00:34:15,230
away in our star system and our galaxy

867
00:34:20,859 --> 00:34:17,389
you have depending on how you count 200

868
00:34:22,990 --> 00:34:20,869
to 400 billion suns and for every Sun

869
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:23,000
there's hundreds to thousands of

870
00:34:27,220 --> 00:34:24,770
galaxies each with hundreds of billions

871
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:27,230
of Suns and now we're finding that in

872
00:34:33,220 --> 00:34:31,609
our so in our part of the galaxy the

873
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:33,230
Milky Way galaxy it seems like every

874
00:34:38,349 --> 00:34:35,810
star has planets we're not saying

875
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:38,359
they're all habitable but there's a

876
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:40,040
whole lot of real estate out there I

877
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:42,770
mean it's a great quote by a artha see

878
00:34:46,750 --> 00:34:44,810
Clark that goes sometimes I think we're

879
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:46,760
alone in the universe sometimes I think

880
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,240
or not either answer is terrifying

881
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,520
I mean and you know we're sticking our

882
00:34:57,980 --> 00:34:55,440
little cosmic toe out just trying to

883
00:34:59,960 --> 00:34:57,990
just see where we are in our place I

884
00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,970
mean there really is this pale blue dot

885
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:02,400
where it's just us in the void of space

886
00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:05,099
and one of the burning questions of NASA

887
00:35:10,099 --> 00:35:07,710
is are we alone and how did life start

888
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,109
here we don't even have good definitions

889
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,240
for the word life I mean I know you

890
00:35:15,230 --> 00:35:14,160
carry it a cell with with with

891
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:15,240
organelles and nucleic

892
00:35:20,060 --> 00:35:18,210
that's definitely alive and prokaryotes

893
00:35:22,609 --> 00:35:20,070
stuff you know bags of goo I'm pretty

894
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,619
sure those are alive viruses that need

895
00:35:27,020 --> 00:35:24,000
these guys machinery to make more of

896
00:35:29,450 --> 00:35:27,030
themselves I'm not sure if that's alive

897
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:29,460
and a-prayin which is just a molecule

898
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,730
I'm pretty sure that's not alive

899
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:33,839
but and this is getting really way off

900
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:36,410
topic but I mean if you think about it

901
00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:39,510
when I went to school the old days

902
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:42,150
life was starts with plants they take

903
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:44,280
sunlight make sugars animals eat the

904
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:46,140
plants animals eat the animals we go to

905
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:51,060
McDonald's there was right well then in

906
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:53,339
1977 by the mid-atlantic ridge we found

907
00:35:58,460 --> 00:35:56,700
organisms living off a heat depending on

908
00:36:00,320 --> 00:35:58,470
you know what you prescribed to either

909
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:00,330
call that pyro synthesis or chemo

910
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:03,089
synthesis if you're a physicist energy

911
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,770
is energy

912
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:06,480
why not acoustic synthesis why not

913
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:09,030
magneto synthesis you could argue that

914
00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:11,010
the early Earth had many different types

915
00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:12,390
of primary producers but the

916
00:36:14,359 --> 00:36:13,830
photosynthetic plants were most

917
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,369
efficient

918
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:15,839
they took over the whole tops of the

919
00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:17,310
ocean they crawled out on land took

920
00:36:20,570 --> 00:36:19,020
everything over there when they ran out

921
00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:20,580
of real estate they tried to go to the

922
00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:21,900
bottom of the ocean to go after the

923
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,160
pyrrha synthetic guys because they're

924
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,500
just so efficient at using sunlight but

925
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:26,880
they ran out of light before they got

926
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:29,670
down there so if we're looking for life

927
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:32,970
again again talk about impossible or

928
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:35,760
possible if it's got an energy gradient

929
00:36:43,339 --> 00:36:38,550
if it's got liquid water and it's got

930
00:36:44,839 --> 00:36:43,349
carbons why not and as we get out there

931
00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:44,849
we're gonna that's these are more of

932
00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:45,780
these science questions that we're

933
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,160
absolutely got to go through the Nemo

934
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:49,680
thing yeah yeah they're the last thing I

935
00:36:52,220 --> 00:36:50,609
want sorry but before we get to your

936
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:52,230
final slides are actually this rock

937
00:36:55,339 --> 00:36:53,640
that's sitting right in front of us it's

938
00:36:58,509 --> 00:36:55,349
not a rock I apologize for calling it a

939
00:37:01,370 --> 00:37:00,710
you mind telling everybody what it

940
00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:01,380
actually is

941
00:37:07,730 --> 00:37:05,640
I needed a prop to hide the monitor so I

942
00:37:09,289 --> 00:37:07,740
brought a meteorite

943
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:09,299
remember it's media rides in space a

944
00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:10,529
meteor through the atmosphere it's a

945
00:37:15,140 --> 00:37:12,750
meteorite it's kind of big enough to

946
00:37:15,799 --> 00:37:15,150
hide the monitor meteorites come in

947
00:37:18,019 --> 00:37:15,809
three flavors

948
00:37:19,789 --> 00:37:18,029
there's the iron nickel kind there's the

949
00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:19,799
iron nickel with rock and then there's

950
00:37:24,650 --> 00:37:22,740
just the rock and what happens is if I

951
00:37:26,299 --> 00:37:24,660
have an asteroid out there any another

952
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:26,309
guy slams into it either breaks into

953
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:29,400
pieces or it sticks if it sticks it

954
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:31,170
deposits its energy into it so it heats

955
00:37:36,799 --> 00:37:34,529
up as more and more rocks hit each other

956
00:37:37,819 --> 00:37:36,809
I call them rocks as they as they hit

957
00:37:38,809 --> 00:37:37,829
each other to think it's bigger and

958
00:37:41,299 --> 00:37:38,819
bigger and hotter and hotter

959
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:41,309
the heavy stuff starts to sink so the

960
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:45,450
iron or nickel sinks and the the rocky

961
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:48,210
stuff floats so you're making a proto

962
00:37:53,660 --> 00:37:50,190
world your iron is going to be your

963
00:37:56,329 --> 00:37:53,670
proto core your metal Rocky is your

964
00:37:58,730 --> 00:37:56,339
mantle and your your rock is the crust

965
00:38:00,349 --> 00:37:58,740
it starts to differentiate as this thing

966
00:38:02,059 --> 00:38:00,359
is growing up trying to become a planet

967
00:38:03,710 --> 00:38:02,069
something mash into it and this time

968
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:03,720
rather than any heat it just broke the

969
00:38:08,269 --> 00:38:06,089
whole thing up so this is iron nickel

970
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:08,279
meteorite it's a campo del Cielo from

971
00:38:13,069 --> 00:38:10,529
Argentina found in the 1500s they think

972
00:38:16,789 --> 00:38:13,079
it hit 5,000 years ago this is all iron

973
00:38:19,460 --> 00:38:16,799
so this is the proto core of a world

974
00:38:21,380 --> 00:38:19,470
wannabe that got disrupted and the

975
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:21,390
reason why it's here is one of the

976
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:22,529
missions that went through us for

977
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:24,900
feasibility was a mission called psyche

978
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:27,450
it's the 16th one that was known in the

979
00:38:33,279 --> 00:38:29,849
asteroid belt it's about a hundred and

980
00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:33,289
twenty miles across it's an iron nickel

981
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:35,640
asteroid with the crust blown off so we

982
00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:38,609
think it's a naked core so just picture

983
00:38:42,799 --> 00:38:40,500
this rock about a hundred twenty miles

984
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:42,809
across something would fit between here

985
00:38:49,370 --> 00:38:45,599
and San Diego that's what we're going to

986
00:38:51,259 --> 00:38:49,380
explore with the psychie mission now I'm

987
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:51,269
gonna do the final please do what I want

988
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:53,250
to end with a series of images that that

989
00:38:58,660 --> 00:38:56,250
just just blow me away they're not that

990
00:39:01,730 --> 00:38:58,670
fancy but just just look at this on your

991
00:39:05,420 --> 00:39:01,740
left that is a picture of the earth from

992
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:05,430
low Earth orbit the middle is a picture

993
00:39:10,940 --> 00:39:08,250
of the earth as seen from the moon on

994
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:10,950
the right you don't know that so I'm

995
00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:11,770
going to tell you

996
00:39:16,650 --> 00:39:13,960
that is a picture from the surface of

997
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:16,660
Mars and DC that red circle oops that

998
00:39:22,290 --> 00:39:19,900
red circle yeah okay I'm just make sure

999
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:22,300
it's the right that that white dot is

1000
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:24,070
the earth as seen from the surface of

1001
00:39:29,609 --> 00:39:28,270
Mars here is Saturn and you're behind it

1002
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:29,619
so you're looking towards the Sun the

1003
00:39:34,140 --> 00:39:31,930
disc itself is blocking the sunlight and

1004
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:34,150
you just get the glow of the Rings we

1005
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:36,040
really had to punch this thing up but in

1006
00:39:43,470 --> 00:39:40,000
that circle that's the Earth from a

1007
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:43,480
billion miles away so I want to end with

1008
00:39:47,250 --> 00:39:45,490
a quote by one of my heroes Constantina

1009
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:47,260
voted avid Sewell Kooskia one of the

1010
00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:49,570
fathers of astronautics the earth is the

1011
00:39:54,690 --> 00:39:51,880
cradle of the mind but one cannot live

1012
00:40:10,180 --> 00:39:54,700
in the cradle forever thank you very

1013
00:40:14,140 --> 00:40:12,039
we are gonna open it up for some

1014
00:40:15,730 --> 00:40:14,150
questions now now if you're here I got

1015
00:40:16,509 --> 00:40:15,740
questions you've got wedge against

1016
00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:16,519
hundreds

1017
00:40:20,819 --> 00:40:18,529
nobody's enjoying watching some people's

1018
00:40:24,190 --> 00:40:20,829
face your face in particular we're just

1019
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:24,200
watching this was amazing cuz that's

1020
00:40:27,339 --> 00:40:25,730
what this place is about if you have

1021
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:27,349
questions this microphone right over

1022
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:28,609
here if you're here on the lab if you're

1023
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:32,089
joining us at home on Ustream or YouTube

1024
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:33,440
if you ask your questions

1025
00:40:37,329 --> 00:40:35,599
we've got people up there monitoring

1026
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:37,339
those they'll be able to burn them in so

1027
00:40:42,730 --> 00:40:39,529
who's got the first question so let's go

1028
00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:42,740
ahead and step on it so you can if

1029
00:40:45,339 --> 00:40:43,940
you've got questions you can line up

1030
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:45,349
right behind the microphone right over

1031
00:40:48,099 --> 00:40:46,490
there if you like because if you don't

1032
00:40:50,289 --> 00:40:48,109
line up I'll ask you guys questions and

1033
00:40:52,930 --> 00:40:50,299
then we're really in trouble Randy never

1034
00:40:54,279 --> 00:40:52,940
stops teaching either we were setting up

1035
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:54,289
and talking about this and Randy was

1036
00:41:00,029 --> 00:40:56,450
telling everybody all about any but

1037
00:41:03,579 --> 00:41:00,039
doesn't just a big fan so first question

1038
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:03,589
lots of questions edited down to two

1039
00:41:11,470 --> 00:41:07,700
is there an engineering or science

1040
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:11,480
discipline for origami so that you can

1041
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:13,910
fold this stuff up open it and the

1042
00:41:20,319 --> 00:41:17,210
circuits all connect is there specific

1043
00:41:21,789 --> 00:41:20,329
discipline for that is not here at the

1044
00:41:25,089 --> 00:41:21,799
laboratory that's what we had to go to

1045
00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:25,099
campus to Caltech to find an expert or

1046
00:41:28,809 --> 00:41:27,380
Gami guy and I'm sure they have a fancy

1047
00:41:30,339 --> 00:41:28,819
word for it but there there is a

1048
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:30,349
discipline but it's probably more of an

1049
00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:32,150
art form than an engineering form even

1050
00:41:38,019 --> 00:41:33,230
though we're if they get insulted by

1051
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:38,029
that it's probably both now my second of

1052
00:41:47,019 --> 00:41:44,450
many but my last I now there's a new

1053
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:47,029
science mission that wants to put

1054
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:50,000
another over on Mars we work twenty data

1055
00:41:59,109 --> 00:41:56,960
for C I paid attention have they ever

1056
00:42:03,730 --> 00:41:59,119
worked at putting some kind of a

1057
00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:03,740
compressed gas blower on the Rovers now

1058
00:42:09,930 --> 00:42:06,980
so that if there is a dust storm the

1059
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:09,940
solar panels can be blown Queen and

1060
00:42:14,529 --> 00:42:12,710
extend the wife even more than the great

1061
00:42:16,569 --> 00:42:14,539
extensions you guys have already done

1062
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:16,579
well here's the issue here there's a

1063
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:18,890
number challenges with that one the 2020

1064
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:20,750
Rover is nuclear power not solar powered

1065
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:22,290
so you don't want to put a blower on

1066
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,570
if you put a blower on a solar-powered

1067
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:26,880
vehicle now your anymore mass and

1068
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:29,670
complexity the rovers Spirit and

1069
00:42:32,420 --> 00:42:30,839
Opportunity were designed for 90 days

1070
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:32,430
because we've looked at the rate of dust

1071
00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:33,660
deposition and tried to figure out how

1072
00:42:37,849 --> 00:42:35,550
long we could go and make the pan is

1073
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:37,859
long enough but the dust devils just

1074
00:42:40,700 --> 00:42:39,450
would you know you are powered decrease

1075
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,710
each day and then a dust devil drone

1076
00:42:44,359 --> 00:42:42,480
over so the power you know peak back up

1077
00:42:46,609 --> 00:42:44,369
you go thanks for the fish I mean it was

1078
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:46,619
just it was just great so adding more

1079
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:48,570
mass and complexity to do something that

1080
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:51,300
may be done naturally is one issue

1081
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:53,490
the next question is and this is kind of

1082
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:55,530
a heretical I mean how long do you want

1083
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,690
a mission to last for if you keep paying

1084
00:43:00,800 --> 00:42:59,280
out for these extended missions that's

1085
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:00,810
money your take away from the next

1086
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:03,480
mission so the way to think about is say

1087
00:43:06,170 --> 00:43:04,920
you put money away for vacation every

1088
00:43:08,359 --> 00:43:06,180
two week you're having one every two

1089
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:08,369
years gonna go on vacation you're gonna

1090
00:43:11,780 --> 00:43:10,140
do it for two weeks you're now in a

1091
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:11,790
place you go I'm gonna stay here a third

1092
00:43:17,089 --> 00:43:14,490
week you're now taking money from your

1093
00:43:19,579 --> 00:43:17,099
next vacation so you're delaying that

1094
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:19,589
one so when we say something should last

1095
00:43:23,810 --> 00:43:21,030
a certain length we really want it to

1096
00:43:25,339 --> 00:43:23,820
last that long that being said most

1097
00:43:27,470 --> 00:43:25,349
missions that have succeeded that didn't

1098
00:43:29,570 --> 00:43:27,480
have an issue have already gone three

1099
00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:29,580
five times more than its primary mission

1100
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:31,830
anyway so so lifetime hasn't been an

1101
00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:33,810
issue for our missions we'd like to do

1102
00:43:39,170 --> 00:43:37,470
the more and more capable stuff not now

1103
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:39,180
later we're gonna line that and Brandi

1104
00:43:46,510 --> 00:43:40,260
let's stick around I'll stick around

1105
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:50,120
hey it seems as though that there is a

1106
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:52,710
lag or latency between the time that a

1107
00:43:56,270 --> 00:43:54,510
scientific instrument is deployed and

1108
00:44:00,050 --> 00:43:56,280
the time that it arrives to any

1109
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:00,060
particular time maybe 30 40 years how

1110
00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:02,609
does NASA predict what society would

1111
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:04,500
likely want to use that particular

1112
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:06,930
instrument 30 years down the line maybe

1113
00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:08,310
10 years down the line you mentioned

1114
00:44:15,770 --> 00:44:10,830
earlier that sometimes scientists on

1115
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:15,780
earth end up discovering ideas yes one

1116
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:17,510
of the interesting that we face is that

1117
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:22,230
technology it's got a clock on it the

1118
00:44:25,730 --> 00:44:24,359
technology of now is the technology you

1119
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:25,740
can use now and is only good for a

1120
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,930
certain finite period of time I would

1121
00:44:31,820 --> 00:44:30,000
not use saturn v technology to Rawkus

1122
00:44:33,859 --> 00:44:31,830
those guys were using vacuum tubes and

1123
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:33,869
and copper plated wire memory and also

1124
00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:34,740
it's a really horrific

1125
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,020
so it's really what you have the tekneq

1126
00:44:40,310 --> 00:44:38,880
technology now so you don't want to deal

1127
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,320
with stuff that's going to be 40 years

1128
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,720
in the future because all the technology

1129
00:44:46,940 --> 00:44:43,920
that you're working with is going to be

1130
00:44:48,829 --> 00:44:46,950
outdated so there's this dance between

1131
00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:48,839
what is the burning science question of

1132
00:44:53,540 --> 00:44:51,240
the day and what's the best technology

1133
00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:53,550
that's flight proven that we know works

1134
00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:55,380
in space that can actually survive the

1135
00:45:01,160 --> 00:44:56,940
rigors of space to actually get you some

1136
00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:01,170
of those answers so we don't go that far

1137
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:03,030
in advance we're you know I say we're

1138
00:45:08,270 --> 00:45:06,089
good for 10 maybe 20 years we'll work on

1139
00:45:09,770 --> 00:45:08,280
technologies for the next 20 years but

1140
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:09,780
the technology of the day is only good

1141
00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:13,650
for the near-term right now thanks I've

1142
00:45:17,329 --> 00:45:15,780
actually got a good online follow-up

1143
00:45:19,099 --> 00:45:17,339
question from that was from Trevor oh

1144
00:45:22,130 --> 00:45:19,109
and they asked is NASA planning on using

1145
00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:22,140
reusable spacecraft in the future yes I

1146
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:23,940
mean here again people would say well is

1147
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:26,130
it impossible to reuse spacecraft launch

1148
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:28,440
vehicles well come on when you fly from

1149
00:45:33,260 --> 00:45:30,000
New York to DC you don't throw a the

1150
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:33,270
plane when you get to DC why did people

1151
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,070
say you couldn't reuse space launch

1152
00:45:39,859 --> 00:45:37,680
vehicles so one of the things that

1153
00:45:41,540 --> 00:45:39,869
SpaceX has done that no one has ever

1154
00:45:43,609 --> 00:45:41,550
done before and we're curious about is

1155
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:43,619
it's called supersonic retropropulsion

1156
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:46,200
so here you'll launch your rocket you're

1157
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:50,760
going at Mach lots you do your first

1158
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:53,040
stage cut off you turn it around your

1159
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:55,050
start falling and now you're firing your

1160
00:45:59,359 --> 00:45:56,970
engines in the direction that you're

1161
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:59,369
moving at high Mach numbers so you're

1162
00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:00,960
blowing your engine into the direction

1163
00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:03,750
of travel NASA never does it we launch

1164
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:05,430
one way we go the other way to actually

1165
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:08,330
do retro supersonic propulsion it's nuts

1166
00:46:11,540 --> 00:46:10,950
but they showing us how to do it so we

1167
00:46:14,599 --> 00:46:11,550
think it's great

1168
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:14,609
so NASA what NASA does which is really

1169
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:17,880
lovely is we try to develop capability

1170
00:46:22,310 --> 00:46:20,730
and then push it out to the the US and

1171
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:22,320
the businesses as fast as we can because

1172
00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:25,170
we want to set up new markets in our

1173
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:26,580
Charter we're supposed to train the next

1174
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:27,570
generation of scientists and engineers

1175
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:29,609
and help the economic competitors the

1176
00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:32,130
United States NASA doesn't do launch

1177
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,020
vehicles anymore those are your those

1178
00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:36,720
your Boeing's those are your SpaceX's

1179
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:37,859
they're all these other guys that are

1180
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:41,040
doing it we want that to be their

1181
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:42,570
business and we'll do the same thing

1182
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:45,570
with human transportation in space right

1183
00:46:48,620 --> 00:46:47,099
now nASA has four vehicles coming online

1184
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:48,630
we're always going to try to

1185
00:46:52,580 --> 00:46:50,940
stuff as far down as we can so NASA is

1186
00:46:54,050 --> 00:46:52,590
not going to do retro supersonic

1187
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:54,060
propulsion less maybe we're landing on a

1188
00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:55,800
world as we come in and we're trying to

1189
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:58,140
fire exhaust into that but we want to

1190
00:47:05,870 --> 00:47:02,400
set up commercial sectors to do that hi

1191
00:47:07,580 --> 00:47:05,880
so you mentioned earlier about how there

1192
00:47:10,310 --> 00:47:07,590
are many concepts that could seem really

1193
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:10,320
crazy but not necessarily be impossible

1194
00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:12,570
are there any concepts that you heard

1195
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:14,790
that are you know really crazy and out

1196
00:47:18,830 --> 00:47:17,250
there but not impossible that fascinated

1197
00:47:20,810 --> 00:47:18,840
you but never became mission concepts

1198
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:20,820
the one I love and they keep modifying

1199
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:22,170
it so I'm going to tell you about a

1200
00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:23,670
design they had a year ago and they've

1201
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:27,740
now changed it but the idea was nuts

1202
00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:31,710
Marco I love you for this one he you

1203
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:33,180
know astronomers like bigger and bigger

1204
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,790
primary mirrors for their telescopes you

1205
00:47:40,070 --> 00:47:36,960
know the big er the further you can see

1206
00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:40,080
the dimmer objects you can detect Hubble

1207
00:47:44,690 --> 00:47:41,940
is 2.4 meters it's about an 8-foot

1208
00:47:46,820 --> 00:47:44,700
primary piece of glass astronomers want

1209
00:47:48,260 --> 00:47:46,830
to get bigger so James Webb and infrared

1210
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:48,270
it's like six and a half meters it's

1211
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:51,510
really like 21 feet across stron Murs

1212
00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:56,160
want to get bigger one idea is the guy

1213
00:48:01,790 --> 00:48:00,150
wants to make fine grains shiny dust put

1214
00:48:03,950 --> 00:48:01,800
the dust in a spacecraft send the

1215
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:03,960
spacecraft out to like l1 where the

1216
00:48:08,060 --> 00:48:05,250
gravity's bounce between the earth and

1217
00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:08,070
the moon dump out the dust which is fun

1218
00:48:10,890 --> 00:48:09,660
to do in zero-g to get that stuff out of

1219
00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:10,900
there

1220
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,240
they have this undulating cloud and dust

1221
00:48:16,410 --> 00:48:14,800
particles just kind of sitting there in

1222
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:16,420
this gravity well between the earth and

1223
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,330
the moon then with six lasers three on

1224
00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:22,240
the side you don't want to melt the

1225
00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:24,040
grains you want to use photon pressure

1226
00:48:31,620 --> 00:48:26,320
to shape it into a primary mirror of any

1227
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:31,630
size oh wait it gets better then they

1228
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:33,250
want to have the lasers interfere with

1229
00:48:36,420 --> 00:48:34,690
each other so you can change the average

1230
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:36,430
spacing between the grains so now you

1231
00:48:41,310 --> 00:48:38,110
can tune it to what wavelength it'll

1232
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:41,320
reflect that's the granular imager

1233
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:43,240
concept I love that one and now they're

1234
00:48:46,380 --> 00:48:44,470
getting away from lasers and they're

1235
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:46,390
trying to do electrostatically but I

1236
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:49,210
just love the concept I mean again I'm

1237
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,710
not sure that's in your a lifetime but I

1238
00:48:54,660 --> 00:48:52,960
just think this is it's just great so so

1239
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:54,670
that one is really to me on the edge of

1240
00:48:59,540 --> 00:48:56,650
something that's that's not Daisy

1241
00:49:02,850 --> 00:48:59,550
shooting lasers but it's still out there

1242
00:49:04,260 --> 00:49:02,860
thank you you got it next person is

1243
00:49:07,650 --> 00:49:04,270
stepping up to the microphone Giancarlo

1244
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,660
Estevez asked if the a-team if your team

1245
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:09,760
publishes things on methods do you

1246
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:12,010
publish anything that we do so the

1247
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:13,570
science storytelling stuff is out there

1248
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:16,510
are just how we organize the structure

1249
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:18,190
because we're trying to get this stuff

1250
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:19,510
out there and we're also trying to

1251
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:21,910
attract other people's attentions to

1252
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:23,920
find out how they do stuff we've already

1253
00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:27,430
been to Google X there's Pixar Procter &

1254
00:49:32,730 --> 00:49:30,520
Gamble we're not proud in terms of what

1255
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:32,740
you're out there but any brainstorming

1256
00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:34,480
organization we'd like to learn from

1257
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:36,340
because we have not cornered the market

1258
00:49:40,530 --> 00:49:38,410
in this stuff but this is what we do on

1259
00:49:42,090 --> 00:49:40,540
a day to day basis and if there are

1260
00:49:44,340 --> 00:49:42,100
other ways of doing it you know Disney

1261
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:44,350
Imagineering is it you know you as

1262
00:49:48,420 --> 00:49:46,450
cinema labs or Carnegie Mellon whatever

1263
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:48,430
we'd like to hear how they do their

1264
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:50,110
brainstorming just to just to keep

1265
00:49:56,580 --> 00:49:52,270
improving our process so we do work with

1266
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:56,590
others first of all I disagree with the

1267
00:50:06,930 --> 00:49:59,290
introduction your cohort gave of you you

1268
00:50:09,060 --> 00:50:06,940
do have a sense of humor when I tell a

1269
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:09,070
joke to a woman and she doesn't laugh I

1270
00:50:14,789 --> 00:50:11,200
tell her well that's an engineering joke

1271
00:50:20,219 --> 00:50:14,799
they always find that work

1272
00:50:23,009 --> 00:50:20,229
but you're alive to tell it so you're

1273
00:50:25,650 --> 00:50:23,019
still talking to the sky out there yes

1274
00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:25,660
how what is the range of the technology

1275
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:28,420
of receivers and transmitters how far

1276
00:50:33,569 --> 00:50:30,670
out are you gonna be able to communicate

1277
00:50:36,989 --> 00:50:33,579
with a probe referring to Voyager

1278
00:50:39,539 --> 00:50:36,999
Voyager here at home it will die before

1279
00:50:41,370 --> 00:50:39,549
we can't hear it the trick we have to do

1280
00:50:45,359 --> 00:50:41,380
is since we can't change the hardware on

1281
00:50:47,999 --> 00:50:45,369
the spacecraft we have to talk slower

1282
00:50:50,609 --> 00:50:48,009
and slower to make sure we hear those

1283
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:50,619
zeros and ones so as we get further and

1284
00:50:54,509 --> 00:50:52,209
further away we do a lower lower data

1285
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:54,519
rate we've turned off the really hog of

1286
00:50:58,469 --> 00:50:56,049
instruments so like the imager and the

1287
00:51:00,239 --> 00:50:58,479
guys that take high data volumes so it's

1288
00:51:02,339 --> 00:51:00,249
really feels in particles the protons

1289
00:51:02,819 --> 00:51:02,349
electrons the plasma waves the magnetic

1290
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:02,829
field

1291
00:51:07,279 --> 00:51:04,569
so basically we're taking weather

1292
00:51:10,410 --> 00:51:07,289
forecasts and we'll be able to hear it

1293
00:51:16,529 --> 00:51:10,420
till it dies which will be a sad day

1294
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:16,539
because that was my first spacecraft so

1295
00:51:20,849 --> 00:51:18,249
I was really intrigued at how many

1296
00:51:22,650 --> 00:51:20,859
projects you guys are kind of

1297
00:51:24,660 --> 00:51:22,660
researching at any given period of time

1298
00:51:26,189 --> 00:51:24,670
yeah you know 12 a year seems like it's

1299
00:51:28,620 --> 00:51:26,199
somewhat manageable but then you know

1300
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:28,630
you're talking 6070 whatever we can be

1301
00:51:33,870 --> 00:51:32,170
ambitious right oh yeah I think I can

1302
00:51:35,429 --> 00:51:33,880
see how a problem can arise when you're

1303
00:51:38,429 --> 00:51:35,439
working on so many of these at a time

1304
00:51:40,769 --> 00:51:38,439
how do you kind of just document for

1305
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:40,779
posterity sake and for the next person

1306
00:51:45,479 --> 00:51:42,729
but also for your own sakes to keep

1307
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:45,489
track of which ideas work which ideas

1308
00:51:48,809 --> 00:51:47,529
you like that sort of thing so that's

1309
00:51:50,009 --> 00:51:48,819
the one and then the short follow-up

1310
00:51:52,019 --> 00:51:50,019
question which I was just curious about

1311
00:51:53,759 --> 00:51:52,029
on the starshade there were these little

1312
00:51:55,650 --> 00:51:53,769
petals on the side I was just curious

1313
00:51:56,910 --> 00:51:55,660
what those were about their petals if

1314
00:51:58,229 --> 00:51:56,920
you think about what you're trying to do

1315
00:52:00,929 --> 00:51:58,239
is you're trying to make it transparent

1316
00:52:02,729 --> 00:52:00,939
on the tips and getting more and more

1317
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:02,739
opaque as you get there and that's shape

1318
00:52:07,979 --> 00:52:05,249
a teardrop shape actually is wavy

1319
00:52:10,319 --> 00:52:07,989
because we're trying to suppress every

1320
00:52:12,569 --> 00:52:10,329
photon that's trying to diffract around

1321
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:12,579
the edge of this thing but you know when

1322
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:13,839
we do is studies to address your first

1323
00:52:17,939 --> 00:52:16,089
point we have a facilitator that leaves

1324
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:17,949
the conversation we have an agenda down

1325
00:52:21,329 --> 00:52:20,079
to five minute resolution we have a

1326
00:52:22,620 --> 00:52:21,339
study lead and assistant side lead

1327
00:52:24,359 --> 00:52:22,630
that's responsible making sure this is

1328
00:52:26,249 --> 00:52:24,369
documented correctly on a wiki page and

1329
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:26,259
we hire a documentarian to take the

1330
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:28,089
notes that the study lead in assistance

1331
00:52:30,210 --> 00:52:28,330
either

1332
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:30,220
read because we want to be able to farm

1333
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:32,710
this for the next study so I'm gonna do

1334
00:52:35,850 --> 00:52:34,450
another little Segway real quick one of

1335
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:35,860
the things that was fun did you guys see

1336
00:52:41,610 --> 00:52:38,650
Star Trek was it for with the whales

1337
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:41,620
whales okay you remember when Scotty is

1338
00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:43,240
looking for transparent aluminum to make

1339
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,460
the fish tank for the whales well that

1340
00:52:49,620 --> 00:52:46,960
stuff actually exists today it's

1341
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:49,630
aluminum oxynitride and they came to us

1342
00:52:53,370 --> 00:52:52,090
and said this material is transparent in

1343
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:53,380
all wavelengths except for a little bit

1344
00:52:58,770 --> 00:52:56,220
of the mid IR what could you do with it

1345
00:53:01,260 --> 00:52:58,780
so we did a brainstorming session and

1346
00:53:03,660 --> 00:53:01,270
you're not the winning solution was we

1347
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:03,670
want to make sample canisters out of

1348
00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,170
this stuff so when you put the sample in

1349
00:53:09,060 --> 00:53:06,880
it and seal it up you can still study it

1350
00:53:10,590 --> 00:53:09,070
for the years it takes to go home and if

1351
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:10,600
you die in route or you burned up at

1352
00:53:15,330 --> 00:53:12,640
least you got something right now you're

1353
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,340
putting a can and it disappears so we're

1354
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:16,800
always looking at these new technologies

1355
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:25,440
so we know you are working on the new

1356
00:53:29,820 --> 00:53:28,660
helicopter for for the Mars 2020 Rover

1357
00:53:31,860 --> 00:53:29,830
yep

1358
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:31,870
what other new components did you add on

1359
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:35,680
it that were new besides curiosity one

1360
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:37,090
of the fun instruments on it that I

1361
00:53:42,330 --> 00:53:40,090
really love one of our fantasies is the

1362
00:53:44,070 --> 00:53:42,340
way to reduce cost is to have a smaller

1363
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,080
payload so you use a smaller rock and

1364
00:53:49,230 --> 00:53:46,720
use less fuel one of our and it is a

1365
00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:49,240
fantasy we want to do a two-way mission

1366
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:51,580
that goes to Mars and lands with its

1367
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:54,370
tanks bone-dry well then how do you get

1368
00:54:00,420 --> 00:53:57,310
back the idea was you would suck in the

1369
00:54:04,140 --> 00:54:00,430
atmosphere crack the co2 in two carbons

1370
00:54:07,230 --> 00:54:04,150
and oxygens dig up ice melt the water

1371
00:54:09,150 --> 00:54:07,240
ice split into hydrogen oxygens put the

1372
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:09,160
oxygens together liquefy it fill up the

1373
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:12,850
oxidizer tank then take the carbon from

1374
00:54:18,450 --> 00:54:15,130
the atmosphere with a hydrogen from the

1375
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:18,460
ice make methane liquefy it and fill up

1376
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:19,690
your fuel tank

1377
00:54:25,590 --> 00:54:21,760
that's why Elon Musk is working on

1378
00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:25,600
methane engines okay on the 2020 Rover

1379
00:54:31,170 --> 00:54:27,520
we have a little baby instrument called

1380
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:31,180
moxie it's very very simple its job is

1381
00:54:36,330 --> 00:54:33,850
to just do a proof-of-concept this bad

1382
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:36,340
boy is gonna suck in co2 crack it and

1383
00:54:40,890 --> 00:54:38,130
just see how much oxygen it can make

1384
00:54:43,850 --> 00:54:40,900
moxie and that's that's coming to a

1385
00:54:48,270 --> 00:54:46,950
yeah okay great we're gonna ask one more

1386
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:48,280
from online and then we're gonna finish

1387
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:50,170
up with these three final questions here

1388
00:54:53,220 --> 00:54:51,820
and I'll stay here afterwards so if you

1389
00:54:56,450 --> 00:54:53,230
have any last kind of questions come up

1390
00:54:59,430 --> 00:54:56,460
and ask as he said touch the rock

1391
00:55:01,560 --> 00:54:59,440
what about moon regolith as outer

1392
00:55:03,180 --> 00:55:01,570
protection coating to protect the

1393
00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:03,190
spacecraft from radiation this is from

1394
00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:06,220
james belts regolith is okay but it's

1395
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:07,660
not nearly as good with things with

1396
00:55:11,220 --> 00:55:09,910
hydrogen's or water products okay so

1397
00:55:13,770 --> 00:55:11,230
we're looking at things that are

1398
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:13,780
hydrated we also think and don't get

1399
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,720
grossed out that waste products from

1400
00:55:24,030 --> 00:55:18,400
astronauts would be great to fill the

1401
00:55:25,830 --> 00:55:24,040
walls with you've got to do something

1402
00:55:27,540 --> 00:55:25,840
with it right okay so but that that

1403
00:55:29,490 --> 00:55:27,550
makes a better insulation than regular

1404
00:55:32,610 --> 00:55:29,500
doesn't have any Hutchins in it put it

1405
00:55:35,010 --> 00:55:32,620
to use okay yeah last three questions so

1406
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:35,020
you mentioned working with SpaceX Google

1407
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:37,210
Disney and whatnot what other companies

1408
00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:41,130
do outsource to to get technology and

1409
00:55:45,180 --> 00:55:43,750
products to help with missions you've

1410
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:45,190
got to be careful when it's outsourcing

1411
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:48,310
technology because stuff has to be space

1412
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:50,590
proven and when we're doing stuff that

1413
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:53,410
hasn't been done before it makes us a

1414
00:55:56,730 --> 00:55:55,450
little squeamish making something that

1415
00:55:58,140 --> 00:55:56,740
you're dependent on that's made by

1416
00:56:00,360 --> 00:55:58,150
somebody else that may not have flown

1417
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:00,370
before so we're not really necessary

1418
00:56:04,470 --> 00:56:02,410
using technology from other people per

1419
00:56:06,930 --> 00:56:04,480
se I mean there may be subsystem or

1420
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:06,940
instruments you know hemispherical

1421
00:56:12,270 --> 00:56:09,250
resonator gyroscopes or something that

1422
00:56:13,620 --> 00:56:12,280
will use what we try to do when we're

1423
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:13,630
building spacecraft so we try to get as

1424
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,250
much of the United States involved in it

1425
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:17,440
but there are some pieces that people

1426
00:56:21,090 --> 00:56:18,850
can't make either because they don't the

1427
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:21,100
technology or it's too expensive so we

1428
00:56:25,350 --> 00:56:22,570
have our own machine shop that'll make

1429
00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:25,360
them to spec here you know I mean when

1430
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:27,070
your billion spacecraft say you wanted

1431
00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:29,530
to build a Camry but you were gonna

1432
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:32,020
build each part yourself think how long

1433
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:33,490
how hard it would be to do that and

1434
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:34,810
that's what we're kind of doing these

1435
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:37,210
spacecraft everyone is one-of-a-kind we

1436
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:39,070
try to get as much contractors to reduce

1437
00:56:42,830 --> 00:56:40,570
the price of stuff but it's one of these

1438
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:42,840
stuff that they we know they can make

1439
00:56:49,050 --> 00:56:46,170
thank you you got it

1440
00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:49,060
this question is related to your earlier

1441
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:50,980
one about making fuel on Mars right

1442
00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:54,250
about 15 or 20 years ago there was a

1443
00:56:59,210 --> 00:56:55,950
group call I think the O'Neill

1444
00:57:02,180 --> 00:56:59,220
at Princeton or somewhere I hope you

1445
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:02,190
people don't forget what they were doing

1446
00:57:05,420 --> 00:57:03,450
because they were told those guys did

1447
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:05,430
great stuff it goes even further back

1448
00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:08,730
see Wachowski Oberth goddard so so for

1449
00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:12,150
one idea from that area was was you you

1450
00:57:16,910 --> 00:57:14,310
make fuel on the moon which is a low

1451
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:16,920
gravity well and maybe there's not very

1452
00:57:22,490 --> 00:57:19,290
much hydrogen there not maybe using as

1453
00:57:24,530 --> 00:57:22,500
fuel well you make fuel to go to Mars

1454
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:24,540
well no I don't know the purpose but you

1455
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:26,370
know are you talking about water ice

1456
00:57:34,490 --> 00:57:32,220
that's you baked the the lunar soil has

1457
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:34,500
like one or two percent oxygen you just

1458
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:36,510
use the oxygen you make out the oxygen

1459
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:38,730
and you reacted with hydrogen need to

1460
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,380
bring forward so basically you're

1461
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:41,760
getting the hydrogen you're gonna bring

1462
00:57:46,580 --> 00:57:43,800
that from Earth so but the hydras only

1463
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:46,590
weighs one-eighth as much so it reduces

1464
00:57:50,810 --> 00:57:48,570
the weight for if you want to move a lot

1465
00:57:53,090 --> 00:57:50,820
of people to Mars you would you could

1466
00:57:56,210 --> 00:57:53,100
you could get make a lot of fuel up

1467
00:58:02,270 --> 00:57:56,220
there there's some people I'd like to

1468
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:02,280
send to Mars Thank You Michelle craters

1469
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:05,250
I was actually fascinated by the Mars

1470
00:58:13,730 --> 00:58:11,250
2020 helicopter you had I got a question

1471
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:13,740
you know Mars has very little atmosphere

1472
00:58:19,730 --> 00:58:17,460
and low pressure you know when you try

1473
00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:19,740
to take off a helicopter on earth you

1474
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:22,560
got like the pressure lifted how do you

1475
00:58:29,710 --> 00:58:24,720
overcome the problem with low pressure

1476
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:29,720
and minimal lift we have - not one

1477
00:58:33,410 --> 00:58:31,290
propeller on it

1478
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:33,420
they're counter rotating and they're

1479
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:36,090
going on like 27 or 28 rpms I mean it's

1480
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:46,170
we it's no sound ten seconds of love

1481
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:48,000
time it's not going to be long we're

1482
00:58:52,610 --> 00:58:50,130
just this is a technology demonstrator

1483
00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:52,620
but we just go really fast and you do

1484
00:58:58,790 --> 00:58:54,750
the biggest span that you can on those

1485
00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:58,800
things and just just whirling and we'll

1486
00:59:05,730 --> 00:59:01,920
let you know in the year how they do

1487
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:05,740
well thank you very much more than that

1488
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:08,050
is all the time that we have for tonight

1489
00:59:13,050 --> 00:59:11,410
and I before we thank him one last time

1490
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:13,060
I would like you to join us next month

1491
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:15,610
July 11th and 12th for moonstruck we'll

1492
00:59:19,230 --> 00:59:17,650
be celebrating Apollo's 50th anniversary

1493
00:59:28,410 --> 00:59:19,240
can we get a big round of applause for

1494
00:59:33,980 --> 00:59:30,269
thank you so much for joining us folks